Text of AOL Rotunda Meet w IZL creator J. Feras
Ray Lopez, Ph.D. (LOPEZR%SHIRE@uthscsa.edu)
Mon, 15 Aug 94 16:20 PDT
Here is a transcript of the AOL Rotunda dealing with the IZL Language.
-Jim
Enjoy...
ICS Lee Now, sit back and enjoy our special Rotunda event!
GW Steve Good evening, folks!
Tonight, our special guest on stage is John Feras
author of IZL, the Interpreted Zoomer Language.
I suspect that many of you have been designing
your own programs using IZL during the past couple weeks
since it was first uploaded to the software libraries here
on-line. John lives in Lansdale PA with his wife Colleen
and his daughters Kate and Allie (no kidding!)...
and he works as a senior software engineer for a manufacturer
of computer-based, pollution monitoring equipment. He's also
been involved with systems to control Pay-per-View TV cable
systems. John tells me he originally designed IZL as simply
a scripting language for the Zoomer--he was not very familiar
with Ensemble or GEOS for the desktop. So it was somewhat a
surprise to him to find so many Ensemble users so
enthusiastic about IZL. I know John is eager to get as much
feedback as possible from you about how he can improve IZL,
and I'm sure you have some questions for him, too. John, you
have a few words you'd like to say?
John IZL Thanks, Steve
Hi Folks
I'd like to thank everyone for the interest in IZL and
feedback I've received. As Steve said, I originally thought
of IZL as a Zoomer-only package, but you folks have already
convinced me that there's a far wider application than that.
What I've seen in terms of programs written already is
incredibly impressive. Plus the original list of enhancements
for the commercial version has been expanded thanks to your suggestions.
ICS Lee John,
John IZL yes ?
ICS Lee What kind of enhancements, for the commercial version are you
looking to include?
John IZL The list that is cast in stone for the commercial version is
a follows:
Increase the # of objects, vars, and functions dramatically.
the addition of the ability for buttons to select the
functions they invoke...
the ability for a function to determine what button invoked
it via a built-in variable INVOKER...
Subroutines, the ability of functions to call functions....
The ability for the DISPLAY, POSITION, and var defs to take
expressions instead of hard coded constants...
Arrays...
File I/o...
Launch via data file selections...
Clean up the UI so that buttons don't disappear...
Some other features that may not make the first release...
A graphics capability...
This request really surprised me, a "shrouded" source for
commercial rls of IZL code...
And finally, access to more GEOS objects.
ICS Lee From my use of it, John...you will be enlarging the size of
variables, right?
John IZL By the size do you mean larger than the fixed pt binary in
use ?
ICS Lee Right....
John IZL I'm currently looking into that one, it may not make the
first release...although I really would like it too.
ICS Lee I've got a question that should help ease the minds of most
folks concerned about the future of the desktop, and the
focus on Zoomer.
If you have never heard of Ensemble...how did you become
exposed to the SDK?
John IZL Well, I first got my zoomer and subscribed to the zoomer-list
in the internet, where the SDK was mentioned...
I saw a need for apps on the Zoomer, but had no idea that the
same need existed for the desktop as well.
These folks, thru their e-mail and their posts to
comp.os.geos, have convinced me otherwise.
ICS Lee Now that you know, will you be looking into developing for
the Desktop also, now?
John IZL My hope is to make IZL capable of functioning well in both
environments....
Although we may be looking for a name change....
A subject of long threads of discussion both here on AOL and
in the newsgroups :)
ICS Lee Okay, let me get to a few questions from our audience, John.
From the AGD's resident programming force...LesInk....
Question What type of file I/O are you planning on...
do see VM files in the future?
John IZL In the future, yes, in the short term, simple byte streams in
the first release.
ICS Lee From Lord Zox...ever the resistant one to two computers for
development...
Question "Enthusiastic about IZL"? I haven't had much chance to look
at it yet (just downloaded it today), but ANYTHING that
allows developing GW apps without having to own two computers
has my undivided attention.
John IZL thanx much, i feel the same way...
ICS Lee Exces Data asks....
Question Also, IZL is really easy and seems to lend itself to creating
a visual development system. Any plans for a visual basic
type addition to IZL?
John IZL There has been some discussion of this, but I can't promise a
date.
ICS Lee Lord Zox again...
Question Any possibility of supporting "callouts" to
external C and/or BASIC programs and acting on their output?
I.e. using IZL as a GUI front end for other apps?
John IZL To be honest, I just saw that this evening here on AOL, and I
think it's a good idea.
Question WaitPost asks: Are you considering maybe a desktop version
and a Zoomer version? Or a different design that will allow
a larger "program" space?
John IZL I am envisioning a product that would allow the IZL
programmer to be able to be sensitive to the platforms that
his/her program might run on....an ability in the language to
sense the sizes of the buttons created by the various UIs
that GEOS uses.
ICS Lee Lord Zox is curious.....
Question What does "shrouded source" mean?
John IZL Well, I saw a few people saying they were hoping IZL could
become compiled....so that they could sell programs they
developed in IZL without releasing the source code. but....
the nature of the language and existing interpreter make this
a rather difficult proposition.... so, since the interpreter
pre-parses before execution...the ability to save the
post-parsed image to a file for distribution without
releasing source code was (I thought) a viable possibility.
ICS Lee Along those lines, John....you may have seen a few encryption
programs created using, IZL..maybe your program could have a
"compiler" that uses a key, that you know to encode the
script...
John IZL Yes, I have, and I've learned a lot about encryption in that
message board :)
ICS Lee and the key to decode it..in the interpreter. Would this be
possible?
John IZL Sorry bout the interruption, yes may be an alternative.
ICS Lee From GWRepKenny....
Question Will there be the ability to resize the window when being
used in Ensemble ?
John IZL I haven't implemented it yet, but I don't see any major
problems with it, however,...some confusion.
ICS Lee Skyhawk99 asks.....
Question Have you decided on the price of the commercial version?
John IZL It will cost less that $50.
ICS Lee Wow... that's great.
From Halfman 1.....
Question Any plans for an icon and/or help file for the commercial
version? I am sure you could get writing and drawing help
here if you wanted it.
John IZL There is an impediment to the release of a software product
that I have encountered...over the years. Its called
"creeping featureism". I DO want to release version 1.0...
later this summer....
The Icon idea however, is a good one for a future release.
But I think the commercial version should be in your hands
sooner rather than later.
ICS Lee Well, you've just answered Exces Data's question about a time
frame for release. ;) But we've got this question from
LesInk..really a suggestion....
Question Are you going to look into making IZL work with Geometric
hints instead of using XY positioning? This would take care
of problems of different size text.
John IZL I must answer a question with a question, something like....
button x is 5 pixels to the right of the end of button Y ?
ICS Lee I'll be waiting for your answer, Les.
In the meantime....GWRepKenny asks...
Question Will a later version adjust to the different video screen
sizes ( 640 x 200 to 800 x 600 ) ?
John IZL My plan for the future is too allow the IZL programmer to
write code (using some built in variables) that could adapt
to the screen size of the platform it is on.
ICS Lee Folks, just a quick mention....
and then we'll get back to the questions.
The Rotunda has numerous events, and a schedule is outside
the Rotunda area...(Keyword: Rotunda) in the Coming Events
folder. Check it out, and join us for other events.
Also, if you miss some of the Rotunda..we have the transcript
Log up, ..about an hour after the Rotunda event has finished
...so you can I download it usually an hourafter the event.
Okay...we have prizes, don't we Steve?
GW Steve Yep, Lee... we certainly do...
I have an official Geoworks Hot Chocolate Mug to give to our
first lucky winner...
OnlineHost Dice Rolled: 21
ICS Lee Congrats, NightFlier.
GW Steve Yay! NightFlier!
Our second prize may not ship immediately, but
I think it will be well received...
John has graciously offered a copy of the
commercial version of IZL as our other door prize.
Will you pick a winner a little bit later, Lee?
ICS Lee It would be my pleasure, Steve.....
At the moment...we do have LesInk's answer to John's
question. From LesInk, here's the answer you needed John....
Question No, you can use geometric hints to say things like: Place
button 1, 2, & 3 together in a group that is full justified
from left to right in window expanding from the left to the
right. There are a bunch of these hints and I no longer use
X & Y coordinates.
John IZL Well, for version 1.0, no. But in future release, it's worth
looking into, but, I have a concern for code space. This
was never intended to compete directly with the SDK.
ICS Lee Halfman 1 asks...a burning question.....
Question Do you need beta testers?
John IZL I have been deluged with beta test requests....
and can only accept a few....
due to the fact that I have to track revisions.
ICS Lee From Lord Zox....a similar question asked earlier....
Question Okay--how 'bout the ability to directly launch IZL files?
John IZL I think it's a great idea, but regrettably, not in the first
release.
ICS Lee Here's a question for you, Steve...
From GIGO.......
Question Ask Steve if he was able to hog tie an AOL rep for an up
coming Rotunda.
GW Steve I've asked the product manager for PCAO to be our guest at
the next Rotunda conference. I haven't got a firm commitment
from him yet, but he said he was willing... then he went on
vacation until August 15th.
So... I'll announce that conference as soon ad he gets back
and firms up the date and time. Thanks for asking!
ICS Lee Halfman 1 asks...
Question Has all the input you've received changed your envisioned
release date?
John IZL No, but it has made me more committed. My wife says I says
should have been...committed years ago. :)
for bad typing.
ICS Lee My wife and your's is on the same wavelength, John. ;)
A Comment from NightFlier about his Mug...
Comment Thank you very much, folks! Neato! :-)
ICS Lee Lord Zox asks...
Question What other development alternatives are there for Geoworks,
either existing or planned?
ICS Lee I'm not sure if this is for you, Steve, or for you, John?
GW Steve As you're aware, the primary tool provided by Geoworks at
this time for development of GEOS applications and libraries
is the Geoworks SDK, which sells for $99 and comes on CD.
Geoworks is researching and beginning development of
some more high level tools, perhaps something along the
lines of a "visual" development package, but there's
no schedule about that work yet, and of course, no release
date that we can talk about at this time.
John's contribution of IZL is certainly a welcome one at
this time.
There may be other third party development tools that are
"in development"... but if so, they haven't been announced.
ICS Lee Our last question comes from Skyhawk99....
Question A keyword analogous to GW-BASIC's "SYSTEM" would go nicely
with the "directly launchable" feature...
ICS Lee Actually, a comment. ;)
John IZL I agree, and that would certainly be looked into, in a future
release.
ICS Lee I've got one more question...sorry about that.
From IMJerry....
Question How about stronger variable typing; in other works, integer,
and decimal declarations. And also, long integers. How about
printing from IZL?
John IZL I have not investigated that yet. In the short term, with
version 1.0 you could output to a file, then output that to
the printer ??? what is being asked ?
ICS Lee Just a point, for Jerry...the basic "typing" ability is
already in there...it's just not declared as such...for
instance when you put the value excuse me..
John IZL Jerry,
the new version will support arrays of numbers and the
existing numbers and char strings.
I haven't investigated this, but since the parse library
deals in reals...and since the parse library contains a
function to convert a real to a string...you should be able
to possibly do a calculation, then. convert it to a string,
then output the string to a label or text object. The value
objects and the vars are currently fixed point binary.
sorry for the dissertation.
ICS Lee Okay...it's just about time to wrap things up.....I think we
can use a reiteration of the prizes...if you will Steve?
GW Steve ::reiteration mode on::
Our super duper special prize of the evening is
a copy of the commercial release of IZL
(or whatever John decides to call it by then...)
when it's ready!
Lee, will you ask the Onlinehost to roll the dice and
choose our lucky winner?
OnlineHost Dice Rolled: 9
ICS Lee There you have it, Steve.....oh you want a name to go with
that? ;)
GW Steve Sure... a name would be good...
ICS Lee Congrats, IMJerry....
GW Steve Yay, IM Jerry!
Way to go...
John IZL way to go, Jerry!
can ship your prize when it's ready!
Jerry, if you have the free ware, you have my e-mail address,
right ?
ICS Lee Thanks for joining us folks...maybe when John gets the
commercial version done..he'll rejoin us...
Thanks Steve...and John for making this a great Geos Rotunda
Forum.
GW Steve I certainly plan on inviting you, John!
Thank you, Lee!
John IZL I'd be glad to return!
Thanx, guys.
GW Steve and thanks to John and to everyone in our audience!
ICS Lee We'll be looking for you.
GW Steve nite nite now...
That's great, Lee!
--
James W. Barr, N9ONL | Using GEOS for Amateur Packet Radio
jbarr@mcs.com | in Buffalo Grove, IL, USA!